The following is a list of references in the form of letters, articles and reports in Scalefour News regarding the Netherlands Area Group; the activities of its members and friends and the development and adoption of P87 standards.

With special thanks to Dave Doe and Jos Blatter for starting it all off.

Researched & Compiled by Danny Cockling
Updated 8th April 2007
Date Issue Page Title Author Details
Dec-87 58 7 International Modelspoor Expositie Mike Peascod Detailing the visit of UK layouts to Den Bosch in Oct 87. Including: Laxfield, Petherick & Bodmin with: John Watson, Don Gilliland, Barry Norman, Tony Sheffield, Phil Cotton, Mike Sargent, Tony Wilkins, John Hayes, Mel Fuller & Les Williamson.
Dave Doe & Jos Blatter organised the Netherlands end of things.
Although there is no mention in the article, Dave & Shirley Rowe also attend with Exbridge Quay. This is referred to by Vincent de Bode in his article in S4News 82.
Apr-88 59 9 Letter Robin Marsh From West Germany: thanking the organisers & exhibitors of the above UK/NL contingent at Den Bosch.
Sep-88 61 4 Scaleforum Guide Geraint Hughes Appearance of Middlepeak Wharf at Scaleforum.
Sep-89 64 6 Woolverstone Iain Rice Iain won the Ken York trophy for the Best Layout. Both Geraint & Iain were to become closely associated with the Netherlands Area group.
Dec-90 70 4 Rail 90 at
's Hertogenbosch (an interesting typo makes it Heterogenbosch)		 Dave Doe Detailing a second visit of UK layouts: (Bogswoth Junction & Darwarton) to Den Bosch in Oct 90. Including: Dave & Shirley Rowe, Mike Sharman and Ray Ward. The Netherlands group is refered to as 'BANG' and the article also contains
the 1st mention of P87 to appear in Scalefour News.
Dec-91 75 18 Show Report: Leatherhead Andy Farquarson Mention of Dutch contingent at Scaleforum: Jos Blatter, Piet Peetoom and Vincent de Bode.
May-92 77 11 Netherlands Area Group Dave Doe First Netherlands Area Group report: although a core of people had been meeting for around six years. Mention of a layout being built by Vincent de Bode, (Flintfield) Piet Scheltinga's first loco, and another built by Jos Blatter.
Sep-92 79 (v) Scaleforum Guide Geraint Hughes Re-appearance at Scaleforum of Middlepeak Wharf: The Cromford & High Peak Railway.
Mar-93 81 2 Letter Robert Evans Not specific to SNAG. Robert was at that time living in Amstelveen.
May-93 82 7 Letter Robert Evans As above
May-93 82 19 Flintfield Vincent de Bode In a whole page article Vincent tells the story of his return to railway modelling, his visits to Rail-87 and Scaleforum 88, his acquainance with Iain Rice and Dave Doe and the genesis of his renowned P4 layout Flintfield. Vincent also makes mention of Dave's P87 layout: Portiershaven exhibited partly finished at Rail-89 and to the P87 stock being built by Jos Blatter and Piet Scheltinga
Sep-93 84 14 Scaleforum Guide Vincent de Bode Flintfield GER. Inspired by many of Iain Rice's published ideas, Vincent developed many of these and brought them together in a way that impressed many of the Scalefour Society's old hands. In the article Vincent acknowledges the great help of Dave Doe especially with the bouncing signal mechanisms.
Dec-93 85 6 Impressions of Scaleforum Leo Sřrensen Leo lives in Denmark and gives his view of Scaleforum 93; including Flintfield and discusses the continuing development of P87 in the 'HO zone'.
Mar-94 86 2 Letter S J Ottaway From New South Wales Australia; Mr Ottaway writes about Leo Sřrensen's article and comments on P4 and P87 standards.
Sep-94 89 20 Picture Russell McCoy Picture of Geraint Hughes from 'Cambridge Area Group at Home' demonstrating building construction techniques for CAG's Saffron Waldon layout.
Jul-95 93 18 Point & Signal control on Flintfield Vincent de Bode Vincent describes the development of the point and signal control on Flintfield with reference to the articles that appeared in 'Modelling Railways Illustrated' Vol 2 nos 2 & 7.
Dec-95 95 8 Picture Vincent de Bode Two photographs to accompany the above article on point & signal control.
Dec-95 95 9 Scaleforum 95 An Impression from Abroad Jos Blatter Jos reports on a trip he made to Scaleforum in the company of: Piet Scheltinga, Arnoud Doolaar, Tom Ehrwich, Henk Oversloot (2mm Assoc) and Maikel Kastelijn, which they appear to have found most informative and enjoyable. Jos quotes Tom & Arnoud as saying: "Als je dit alles gezien hebt, dan moet men in Nederland nog met de modelbouwbeginnen!" and: "Wat hier allemaal te koop is zoals kits, boeken, gereedschappen en onderdelen, daar kunnen wij in Nederland alleen maar van dromen!"
May-96 97 4 Spotlight on Iain Rice Iain Rice Iain writes of his involvement with the Netherlands Area group especially with Dave Doe & Vincent de Bode in developing P87 finescale modelling. He also comments on his own P87 layout 'a Dutch lokalspoor' (later to materialise as Bodesmeer).
Jul-96 98 20 AGM Report: Any Other Business Dave Catton Dave Catton asked the Committee to make a formal statement at the 1997 AGM of the Society's attitude to P87. The Chairman said that it would and that he saw few problems with incorporating a P87 SIG within the Society. Eddie Bourne added that there would be a significant P87 presence at Scaleforum.
Sep-96 99 (vi) Scaleforum Guide Geraint Hughes Middlepeak Wharf. This time Middlepeak Top has been added to the layout, modelling the top of the incline, and wins the MRJ Chalice.
Sep-96 99 (vii) Scaleforum Guide Vincent de Bode Flintfield's second appearance at Scaleforum, coming second in the KenYork Trophy competition for the best layout in the show.
Sep-96 99 (ix) Scaleforum Guide SNAG P87 Demonstration
Sep-96 99 18 A Special Interest Group for P87? Lynden Emery, pp the Committee Scalefour News editor Lynden Emery, on behalf of the committee, asks for contributions from members regarding the setting up of a P87 Special Interest Group within the Scalefour Society. Lynden says that he will open a special P87 section in the 100th issue of Scalefour News for relevant letters and thoughts.
Dec-96 100 13 Scaleforum Report Philip McGovern Philip McGovern organiser of the Watford Finescale Extravaganza gives his impressions of Scaleforum 96; including comments on Flintfield, Middlepeak and the SNAG demonstrators with their P87 layout Poortershaven (different spelling from Vincent's article in S4News 82).
Dec-96 100 14 Competition Results Lynden Emery Confirmation of the Ken York Trophy and MRJ Chalice results for Flintfield & Middlepeak Top.
Dec-96 100 17 Picture Tony Wright Picture of Bob Barlow presenting the MRJ Chalice to Geraint Hughes.
Dec-96 100 18 Pictures (colour) David Lane Middlepeak Wharf (bottom of incline) & Flintfield.
Dec-96 100 50 Letter René Gourley Co-ordinator of the Proto:87 SIG writes enthusiastically from Canada.
Dec-96 100 51 Letter Andy Reichert An active member of the US NMRA Proto:87 SIG writes from California with concerns over the proliferation of too many similar groups, with too few members to go round and the possible loss of common standards.
Dec-96 100 51 Letter Ken Walker Writes in favour of a 'Finescale Society' to include P4 and P87.
Dec-96 100 51 Letter Gérard Huet Writes from France from where he is trying to develop P87 as a small supplier of finescale etched brass kits.
Dec-96 100 52 Letter S. Harold Believes that a Special Interest Group could be legitimately incorporated into the Society.
Dec-96 100 52 Letter Dave Doe Expresses his thanks to the Society for the invitation to show P87 at Scaleforum 96 and also thanks Dave Harper, Piet Scheltinga, Wolter Daniels and Iain Rice for helping to make it happen. Dave goes on to argue that as the P87 standards were first devised by the MRSG then the Scalefour Society is the natural home of those standards. Finally Dave lists the mutual benefits to the Society and to P87 of their co-operation.
Dec-96 100 52 Letter Joe Brook Smith Argues in support of the SIG group as they are proposing the original MRSG standards.
Dec-96 100 52 Letter Geraint Hughes Geraint was impressed by the SNAG demonstration at Scaleforum 96 but thinks that the creation of a SIG within the society would fuel a lot of unwanted debate at present. However Geraint offers his practical help and gives an example of how we can benefit through mutual co-operation. Exhibiting at Eurospoor in Utrecht in 1993, Geraint & Dave Doe concocted a mutual challenge - for Geraint to demonstrate a fully working rope incline (Middlepeak Top) and for Dave to demonstrate the practicality of P87 to the Society and to modellers in the Netherlands. Both projects successfully came together at Scaleforum 96.
Dec-96 100 53 Letter Allan Sibley Alan already modelling in P87 sees no reason not to include a SIG within the Society, much as the existing 4mmFNG.
Dec-96 100 53 Letter Malcolm Cross As an original member of the MRSG who produced the standard in 1967, Malcolm has concerns over the ability of manufacturers to meet the exacting tolerences, but also believes that the Scalefour Society is in the best position to take on the mantle of a 'Fine Scale Society'.
Dec-96 100 53 Letter Robin Marsh Writes from a Germany but believes that the Scalefour Society should stay separate from P87.
Dec-96 100 53 Letter Tony Wisdom Believes that the Society should foster the development and growth of P87 modelling.
Dec-96 100 53 Letter Michael Larcombe Thinks that the Society should offer informal support and advice but should stick to 4mm scale.
Dec-96 100 54 Letter Adrian Colenutt Also thinks that P87 has no place within the society as unlike Broad or Narrow gauge 4mm, P87 is to a different scale.
Feb-97 101 19 Letter Jan Frelin Welcomes the developments towards P87 and is pleased with the positive reaction from members.
Feb-97 101 19 Letter Colin Glenister Says that he favours support of P87 within the Society unless they want to form their own society.
Feb-97 101 19 Letter Ted Scannell Disagrees with Dave Doe and thinks that the Society should be scale specific.
Feb-97 101 21 Letter Alan Coppin Thinks that there is much to be gained from a close relationship with those having the same basic philosophy.
May-97 102 9 Middlepeak in High Peak Celebrations Geraint Hughes A report that Middlepeak is to appear at an exhibition of working models to mark the 30th anniversary of the closure of the High Peak Railway at the former railway workshops at High Peak Junction in June 97.
May-97 102 13 Current position of the P87 Issue Lynden Emery The S4 News editor reports that the balance of correspondence on P87 has been broadly favourable and the committee feel that the formation of a self-financing SIG functioning like an area group would be the best arrangement pro tem. Letters will be be held by the editor and forwarded to a member who is prepared to act as Group Organiser.
May-97 102 23 Letter Richard Kelham Agrees with many others that is the concept of scale accuracy that makes for a closer tie than a nominally shared scale ie: P4,S7,P87 etc belong together rather than, P4,EM,OO.
May-97 102 23 Letter Danny Cockling Sees no problem with a P87 SIG being part of the Society, but thinks it would be wrong to alter the constitution, also can't see what the fuss is all about and would support the formation of a 'Finescale Association' to cover all modellers working to Proto standards whatever the scale/ratio.
July-97 103 6 AGM Report: Any Other Business Chairman's comments After the letters in S4 News and the P87 display mounted at Scaleforum by SNAG, those promoting P87 had been happy with the level of support being offered and the Committee saw no need to change the existing approach. With no comment to the contrary from the floor the Chairman proposed to continue with broadly the same level of support for another year.
July-97 103 14 Book Review Lynden Emery Review of 'Les Cahiers du Modélisme' a magazine on modelling French P87 by Gérard Huet.
July-97 103 16 Scalefour South West Guide Iain Rice Bodesmeer Yard P87 set in Holland in 1950 it includes the Bodesmeer Ringvaart, a Fire Station and the Scheltinga en Doe Engineering Works! Layout mentioned in 'A Spotlight on Iain Rice' in S4News 97
July-97 103 18 Scalefour South West Brian Harrap ZOB P87 set in Upper Austria and built as a proving ground for the P87 concept, it has been entirely successful. Brian encourages people to 'poke around and pick up wagons' The layout also features live catenary.
Jul-97 103 28 Letter Hywel Rees Believes that we should not assume that everyone in Europe wants to model P87 rather than P4.
Jul-97 103 28 Letter Gérard Huet Writes to promote P87 in France and is preparing a web page to support this aim.
Sep-97 104 19 Letter Allan Sibley Takes issue with Hywell Rees's letter in S4News 103.
Sep-97 104 19 Letter Jan Frelin Also disagrees with Hywel Rees and states that people will use P4 for British outline and P87 for European.
Jul-98 108 8 The Torque Fairy Tale Piet Scheltinga A rebuttal of the story told by Ted Scannell in S4News 100, page 11.
Jul-98 108 21 Letter Piet Scheltinga Piet describes how he became an insomniac, after Ted Scannell and Derek Genzel violated the laws of Physics, Mechanics and Arithmetic in a series of articles on 'A Quest for Prototype Fidelity'.
Sep-98 109 12 Letters Ted Scannell & Derek Genzel Both Ted and Derek reply to Piet Scheltinga's comments in S4News 108.
Dec-98 110 4 The Difference Between Drawbar Pull & Push Piet Scheltinga A second essay from Piet refuting some of Ted Scannell's conclusions in earlier editions of S4News.
Dec-98 110 7 To Scale, or Not to Scale...Time Piet Scheltinga Piet examines whether or not it is possible to scale time.
Feb-99 111 8 Den Bosch Geraint Hughes A report on the Society's representation at Rail 99. Featuring Brian Harrap with ZOB in P87 and another layout to P220, Iain Rice with Bodesmeer also P87, Vincent de Bode's Flintfield and Wim Thonen's GWR layout Poppy Lane (This should in fact be Pippin Lane). There was also a demonstration stand with: Dave Doe, René Gourley, Piet Scheltinga, Bob Evans, Gerco van Zetten and Arnoud Kroes along with Geraint all helping out.
Feb-99 111 10 SNAG Dave Doe Dave announces that after 15 years of organizing the Dutch group which became SNAG, he is stepping down as Area Group Co-ordinator and handing over to Arnoud Kroes. He adds that since Scaleforum 96 the group have continued to foster the P87 cause alongside P4 and thanks everyone who has given their support over the years, to make things happen.
May-99 112 20 SNAG Arnoud Kroes In his first posting as Area Group Co-ordinator Arnoud reports on a meeting in Rotterdam where Gerco van Zetten brought some wagons (pictures in S4News 113 below), Piet Scheltinga showed two scratchbuilt chassis and Wolter Daniels brought a freight van that he is building. All these were in P87, while Arnoud was building some P4 track for his Cromford & High Peak layout.
Jul-99 113 13 A Dutch Ensemble Pictures Arnoud Kroes Photographs of the Dutch rolling-stock scratch-built by Gerco van Zetten and reported on in issue 111 above.
Sep-99 114 (xii) Scaleforum Guide P87 SIG The Proto:87 SIG have a display track and a demonstration of rolling stock construction. The models on display will be from a wide range of origins reflecting the international nature of the group.
Sep-99 114 11 Picture SNAG Peter van de Kooij sitting round the back of Flintfield at the exhibition in Dortmund. (see below)
Sep-99 114 12 Intermodellbau Dortmund Arnoud Kroes Report on the visit of Flintfield to the huge Intermodellbau Exhibition in Dortmund, Germany.
Feb-00 116 21 Utrecht 1999 Mike Peascod A brief note from Mike about the South London Group's trip to Utrecht for Eurospoor 99. SLAG meets SNAG.
May-00 117 21 Slagroom in Utrecht Len Folkard Len gives an in-depth report on the South London Groups trip to Utrecht to exhibit Wanborough Camp at Eurospoor 99. including his surprise at finding SLAGroom on the desert menu!
Sep-00 119 18 Federal Street Reflections John H W Wright Relating the development of the US Proto:87 layout, Fedreral Street, its trials and tribulations.
Feb-01 121 (vi) Scalefour North Guide Geraint Hughes Middlepeak appearing at Scalefour North, where it won Best Layout. (see below)
May-01 122 27 Messroom Jim Summers Reports that the layout 'Calder Bridge' has moved to a new home in the Netherlands.
Jul-01 123 (ii) Scalefour Southwest Guide Iain Rice Debenham (Cade's Green). The third version of the East Suffolk Light Railway.
Jul-01 123 26 Walkabout in Wakefield
Picture		 Eddie Bourne Geraint Hughes receiving his award for 'most popular layout in show' from Society Chairman John Chambers.
Sep-01 S4gd 8 Scaleforum Special Vincent de Bode Flintfield returns to Scaleforum, making the cover of the first ever Scaleforum special supplement, before going on to scoop both the MRJ Chalice and the Ken York Trophy.
Sep-01 S4gd 14 Scaleforum Special SNAG & co P87 Demonstration stand at Scaleforum, with Brian Harrap, Arnoud Kroes and Gerco van Zetten plus Geraint Hughes with the first mention of his Danish project.
Dec-01 125 5 Picture Philip Hall Vincent de Bode being presented with the MRJ Chalice for his 'evocative GER layout' Flintfield. (above)
Dec-01 125 22 Across the Channel Arnoud Kroes Writes about the future of P87 and the difficulties of getting continental modellers to adopt the standard.
Dec-01 125 30 Sharp Stewart, Dutch goods engine Gerco van Zetten A profile of Gerco's lovely scratch built Sharp Stewart goods locomotive beautifully photographed by Philip Hall.
Dec-01 125 31 The Beth Evans Award Jim Summers A report and picture of Iain Rice receiving the Beth Evans Award from Mike Sharman, for exceptional services to the Scalefour movement.
Sep-02 S4gd 24 Scaleforum Special Iain Rice In an article reflecting on the increasing quality of off the shelf models, Iain makes mention of his Dutch P87 layout Bodesmeer.
Jul-03 133   The Doings of the Area Groups: The Netherlands Arnoud Kroes Arnoud tells of the genesis of his P87 layout 'Amsterdam Funen' after a discussion with Gerco van Zetten on their way back from domonstrating at Scaleforum in 2001. He goes on to describe a visit to Vincent de Bode's home, along with Claude Monier and Peter van de Kooij to see Vincent's latest project; a very scenic layout featuring a 3' 6'' narrow gauge railway.
Sep-05 S4gd 11 Bodesmeer Iain Rice Bodesmeer's first appearance at Scaleforum. Iain tells us about the development and setting of this small but atmospheric layout in P87. The town of Bodesmeer is entirely scratchbuilt and accounts for the 10+ years that it has taken to build.
Sep-05 S4gd 13 Flintfield Vincent de Bode Vincent de Bode's award winning layout returns to Scaleforum. This year's Scaleforum was unique in having a Dutch layout by an Englishman and an English layout by a Dutchman.
Dec-05 145 29 Letter Richard Visscher Richard writes from Amersfoort about an error in the P4 Track and Wheel Standards section of Scalefour Digest.
Dec-06 150 29 Letter Danny Cockling A letter following on from discussions on P4talk in support of a constitutional change that would allow members who are unable to attend an AGM in person to vote by post.
Feb-07 151 13 Letter David Helm David writes from New Jersey in support of Danny's proposal in issue 150.

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